Detailing Question - Cut & Polish on new cars

[citris.87]

Hey fellas

So, another one of them noobie questions, when it comes to cleaning my cars, I have always done it something like this:

Gernie - High Pressure for the wheels, and lower fan one for the rest of the car

Wash the car with a high foam car wash, and a Microfibre Mit, Different bucket for soapy water and rinsing off the mit

Rinse with the Gernie

Chamois the car dry, and glass

Polish the car (Only once since wax should "seal" this)

Light wax the car every 3 months

Anyhow My car has reasonable good paint, a few small chips and some light swirling, so I went in and had a look at autobarn. There was a guy there who has done a detailing class and he gave me a few handy tips

OK so, First of all, Foam lance, I always thought it was just to help soap up the car, apparently you foam it up, leave it 10m, then gernie it a second time and THEN wash... This draws the 95% of the dirt off the paint before you wash and make swirls... makes sence

claybar, I already new this, but I was lazy heh

Now here is the think I want advice on... I was just going to polish, A couple of people suggested AutoGlym, which is the reason I was at autobarn, he suggested using another product, but more importantly, a 500 grip cut and polish then a 2400 grit cut and polish... waa... ok its to get rid of light swirling I know, but a cut on a new (ish) car? what do you guys think? I would have dismissed his advice right there and then, except he then showed me a before pic of his car, then proceeded outside to show me his black car that looks like a bloody mirror, and it was VZ Commy, so not exactly a new car.

I will be doing the Cut and Polish on the misses car first, because hers needs it, but seeing as I have yet to ever use a cut and polish, I would like to make sure its necessary for that mirror finish.

Extra info: I will be using a Random orbital polisher, with foam pads (Different pads for each polish and wax) and Microfibre cloths to wipe off excess.

[Kal777]

For removing light scratches and swirl marks i recommend maguires Ultimate compound. For cleaning and 6 month polishing non-imperfected paint i recommend maguires ultimate polish. Waxing i use maguires NXT Tech Wax. Would never take straight cutting compound to a car unless it was absolutely required. What you are and the guy at autobarn are forgetting is that it is PAINT, and paint is made up of layers. Cutting compounds and polishes remove these layers. The less layers of the clear coat you have the more easy the paint is to sun damage and oxidise.

I recommend to all my customers that want the best result to use a finer compound like the ultimate compound and take longer doing it, than using a high abrasive compound that was really designed to finish newly sprayed paint and major paint damage.

Edit: btw 500 grit is what i use to buff out major dimpling and runs in new clear coat by hand. Using it on a buffer will take you down to metal very fast.

[bunnishiwa]

I'm with Kalum - I use Meguires Ultimate compound occasionally, with Ultimate polish to top off, followed by the Tech wax - lovely beeding and finish.

Clears up swirls & minor scratches/paint fades etc beautifully and I highly recommend. Personally would not put full on cutting agents onto my car unless I already had a ton of experience with them

Oh, and I always fully clay any area that I'm going to polish

[Kal777]

Recommending a full cutting compound for swirling is idiotic actually.

[palimak1]

Ok, a few things.

Light swirling isn't a bit deal, it should come out easily but you want to use the least aggressive products possible. Obviously I wouldn't recommend all of the following if you can get the light swirls out with a lighter polish but I'm going to do a bit of a write up on what you would do to obtain 99% paint correction. In order to get a good cut you do need to use a machine, most use a dual action polisher because it disperses heat much more than the older and out of date rotary and is nearly impossible to damage your paint with.

The point of the foam lance is to take as much of the contaminants as possible without having to touch the paint. Obviously if your car is filthy and you go and touch it with a mitt you are going to be rubbing that dirt into your paint, even if you are using the 2 bucket system.

In terms of waxes, things like the Meguiars Tech Wax 2.0 are there mainly for the shine, and add limited protection for a short period of time as these are very soft waxes. After a cut you wouldn't want to use something carnauba based, because they only offer limited protection. You would want to use something like a sealant after a cut, and leave it on overnight to really stick to the paint.

Anyway, I think that I've been sort of rambling on with little random facts that aren't in any particular order and don't make sense so I'll write a list of what you'd probably be looking at in order to approach these swirls:

1. Obviously the first step is going to be a wash, do it the safe way with of course your 2 buckets and grit guards at the bottom, you should be using a different mitt for the upper and lower parts of the car. Remember all of this is prevention for more potential swirl marks.

2. Dry the car, don't use a chamois or anything similar. Although chamois are extremely absorbent they don't pick up any dirt that may have been left behind after the wash. All the chamois does is rub the dirt on the surface across the rest of the car. The best option for this is to use a high pile microfibre towel and soak it with water. Ring it out and it will be damp. This may seem weird, but it will dry the car and it will do it safely, because the microfibre will grab the dirt and lift it off the surface. When one side of the microfibre towel gets dirty, fold it up and swap to another side.

3. Clay the car. This is really quite simple, there are so many articles on the internet honestly it isn't a difficult task. Quick tip though if you plan on claying the whole car, you don't necessarily need to use a spray wax to lubricate the whole car, its expensive and you will go through the entire bottle. If you use just normal car wash (Obviously mixed with water) it will have enough lubricity to allow the clay to safely work. Don't use straight water as it offers very little lubrication. Just use the wash mitt (obviously a fresh mitt and fresh car wash etc) and squeeze some car wash on the paint then clay it. Claying is very important if you plan on cutting/polishing the paint and it is pretty much the only way you can garauntee that your paint is completely cleansed.

4. Basically that was all the prep for the paint correction. Firstly you need a machine; you said that you had a random orbital polisher and you should specify which one it is. But I'll speak in terms of the polisher I think is the best for the weekend warrior, because its safe and offers 99% paint correction, without having to use a rotary. It's the Griots Garage 6".

Obviously regarding technique you should look at articles, but in terms of a cutting compound I would recommend Menzerna FG400. Unlike most cutting compounds, this one won't leave lots of little scratches (this isn't a big deal because you remove these little scratches with a finer polish), but it is easy to remove and does a fantastic job at correcting paint. With the Griots Garage 6" I would use the Uber Yellow cutting pad.

5. Once you cut the paint back and you are satisfied with the correction you have achieved, you will need to polish the paint. This is a step that takes away the slight haze that a compound usually leaves behind. I would use Menzerna SF4000 with the Uber Green polishing pad. You should look up techniques etc on some videos because it is hard to explain in a text box but those are the products I'd use for the job.

6. Now you will want to use a sealant to protect the paint, you should leave this on overnight. I will recommend Menzerna Power Lock Sealant. It may look like I'm a bit of a Menzerna fanboy but their products are extremely good. You probably won't find these things at your local Super Cheap Auto because they are aimed at the professionals. With sealants and waxes you can use a machine, but I wouldn't recommend it. Remember what the machines are doing is using the heat and power of the machine to cut back the clear coat (obviously in different amounts based on many factors like pads, products, machines, speed etc). Sealants and waxes aren't there to abrade the clear coat anymore. You have already corrected the paint with the cutting compound and finished it off with a finishing polish of some kind. Just use a applicator pad and apply the sealant thoroughly all over, don't use pressure, it isn't needed. It will stick to the paint itself and you should let it do this for a minimum of a few hours. The Menzerna Power Lock is a sealant that works really well with 2 coats, and lasts a lot longer with 2 coats so you could read up on this and give it a go.

7. You are effectively done at this stage, you have corrected and protected the paint again. You may notice with the sealant that it may look a little bit dull compared to the results you may want, this is where waxing comes in to play. Once the sealant is 100% dry you can apply some carnauba wax and it will really pop.

I feel like I was just rambling on I can't really remember what I typed earlier since it was so long so..


TL;DR version:

1. Wash the car. If you have a coat of wax that is still noticeably beading water, you could use something like dish soap to completely strip the wax (don't freak out, it is perfectly fine to use, the reason people don't recommend it is because obviously it strips the car of any wax protection, Obviously I wouldn't use dish soap on every wash but on a major correction this is something to consider).

2. Clay the car. (There are different levels clay bar depending on how harsh and rough the surface is, on a newer car like a lancer I'd use a light-medium clay bar I couldn't see how it would need any more)

3. Cut back the paint. I recommend the Griots Garage 6" with Menzerna FG400 and an Uber 5.5" yellow cutting pad.

4. Use a finishing polish like Menzerna SF4000 with the Griots Garage 6" and an Uber 5.5" green polishing pad.

5. Seal the paint up with Menzerna Power Lock Sealant, you should probably do 2 coats of this and make sure you let is sit for a long time to really grip into the paint.

Can't say much else... I said a lot of random stuff lol

[Metalstrix]

Kirt does that answer your question? LOL if not.....

[palimak1]

I went a bit overboard... But looking after cars is my favourite thing to do after driving them lol

[Metalstrix]

I went a bit overboard... But looking after cars is my favourite thing to do after driving them lol

You're a champ

[citris.87]

Wooooow lol. Actually Ryan (RyanMK) helped a lot in chat but you have set it out in a nice write up, so I can refer to it well.

I will say this, I have with me 2 Menzerna products, the guy at the store talked it up also lol, I have FG500 and PF2500, Ryan also mentions 4000 might be best to start with (May be misquoted). I have a wax, I dont have the sealer, so I may get that tomorrow when I get the 4000.

Question, it seems like by doing this, you pretty much scratch up your clear, and then seal it, does that mean if you got slack and didn't reapply a sealant in say 6 months, it would start to show up the hazy clear again? Is it a better option to use a non abrasive polish and a wax, since the swirls are very light, the usual black car swirls...

I will be honest, I went in to get something to fix the paint on my Misses car, and just get a polish for myself lol, I thought cutting on a 2 year old car seems a bit drastic, and being a noob, it doesn't seem like something I should be attempting at all. Even if the Random Orbital is "Idiot Proof" lol

btw, this is the Polisher I have:

[Metalstrix]

Turbo that thing

[palimak1]

Like I said, you want to use the least aggressive method possible to avoid damage. There isn't such thing as a non abrasive polish. By being a polish in its nature the purpose of the product is to abrade the surface. The reason we use things like lighter polishers is generally to cover up smaller scratches caused by the more abrasive products. Like I said, if you used a cutting compound (which isn't really a big deal, don't be scared by a the word cut lol, just remember you might not need to cut for your application), it will generally get the paint defect out but in the process it can cause a bit of hazing (very small scratches). This is why we go over it after with a lighter polish to remove any light haze from the harsher product. Think of it like sandpaper, and panel prepping. You start with a harsh sandpaper to smooth out the surface, and then you move to a lighter sandpaper to smooth the harsher sandpaper marks and so on.

If you use FG400 (this is a newer polish and is fantastic) you won't really see the haze marks that are common with other compounds because it is such a good product. SF4000 is more to really make the paint pop afterwards.

Don't be scared about cutting a newer car. In some ways it is safer because newer cars have more clear coat generally than older cars. Just remember that if you don't need to do it, there isn't really any reason to.

Best way to tell if your car needs it is to do a test panel, like a spot on your fender and see if you can get the swirls out with something light like SF4000.

By the way with regards to FG400 and FG500. FG400 is basically a newer product that provides a better cut with a more glossy finish afterwards, it is actually rather amazing.

[palimak1]

Oh and also the sealant isn't there to hide any defects in the paint. It is there to protect it so don't worry about the hazyness afterwards. Sealant actually can hide the swirls in the paint though by filling in the tiny scratches. If you want to see something similar to it with the scratches being filled in, try pouring some water on your car where the swirl marks are, you will see that they disappear and the car looks amazing. It is because it is being filled in by the sealant. By correcting the paint, the sealant won't be seeping into the little swirls and scratches and won't be hiding anything, so when it comes off later you won't see hazyness.

[RyanMK]

That's a rebadged DAS6. It's a good quality polisher.

When polishing, you're bound to leave some sort of 'haze' behind. The purpose of the SF4000 is to get rid of the haze and as Jordan say, is to refine the finish and really make the paint pop. The SF4000 does have some minor polishing properties, so you can give it a go for starters if you want.

The haziness will not show up again once the wax wears off. Just re-wax it every 3-4 months and you'll be fine.

I

[citris.87]

OK, so... FG400 is better then FG500, but I should still try 4000 first to see if it works... and if it does, that's enough. I know, broken record, but I don't want to end up making a mistake haha.

You have me confident, I will be doing this on my misses car first, sounds horrible haha, but her car needs it bad, and we were about to get the bonnet resprayed, and thought I would try this first, so worst case, I delay the respray.

Ill have to go look and see if they have the sealant tomorrow, I hear good things from 2 members here now about Menzerna now, and they guy at Autobarn also talked it up so that's good to know

[SIX]

i have a noob question as well .... i have swirl marks i want to get rid of them but always been too scared to use a buffer .... how good are they can i do more damage with it .... or should i still keep hand polishing lol sorry