p-platers to drive ralliart next year

[Metalstrix]

oh man, that's tempting for me to wait to buy a ralli next year. But too bad it's not manual

[evil.ralliart]

That is if they change the law at all...its a bit airy fairy going by that write up....I think its more based for eco boost vehicles...not our sort of cars. I wouldnt put Ra and X in a economical class LOL...Also im not sure if there are mobile dynos in any other states but there are a couple up here..so any mods and your gone anyway.

oh man, thats tempting for me to wait to buy a ralli next year. But too bad its not manual

You can drive an SST like a manual Tomo...nowhere near like a CVT

[shadow-vex]

Hopefully they do, so I can buy myself a turbo

[TheVeeMachine]

...I think its more based for eco boost vehicles...not our sort of cars.

Correct.

When they first brought in the old rules, 1.4L turbo charged Volkswagens with 90kw and 0-100 times in the double digits were getting the cut, but not 309kw Porsche 911s capable of taking a novice driver to the same speed in a bit over 4 seconds.

A list was compiled for each state allowing reasonably powerful cars such as the lower range Golfs, and excluding 'high performance' vehicles that passed under the '6 cylinder or less naturally aspirated' guidelines. This list ended up dozens of pages long, and the muppets that administered said restrictions and list decided 'there must be a better way', and BAM: 130kw/tonne rule.

Although, all this is moot if a parent runs a business, as an exemption can be obtained relatively simply, and you get pictures like this:

[palimak1]

I think the laws regarding p plate vehicles in the eastern states are pretty horrid.

In WA we don't have any rules like this, you can drive any car you want but obviously your insurance cost goes up.

Nearly all the crashes you see over here in 'performance vehicles' are all falcodores and really beaten up s13's/180's, not cars like the Ralliart that have good safety ratings etc.

I'm actually on my p plates and have just sold my lancer to buy something turbo, lol.

[sleeper]

is the 130 kw per tonne gross weight or curb weight?
if u assume its curb weight the RA just scrapes in @ about 122/tonne.

but if u get it tuned its about 146/tonne so we`re on the edge here

this is @ the crank.

[shamoo]

OK so I'm going to sound like such an old person now but I think the laws in place for p plater not being able to drive a turbo are good. I think having restrictions on how powrfull the car you can drive is good to a certain extent. OK maybe if I was a lot younger I would be saying different. But having a few years (8) of legal driving experience, plus a couple years driving around on the farm, I think young people need to have a certain level of driving experience before they get behind the wheel of a powerful car.
I think these days it should be law that you have to do a defensive driving course. Not so you can learn how to be a idiot on the road, but to learn how to handle and react is something bad was to happen. I grew up driving in the country on dirt roads, which are far more dangerous to drive on then bitumised roads. I can remember one of the driving instructors would take you to a big dirt patch n pull up the hand brake n show you what to do if your car starts sliding out n stuff like that. Do you p platers know what to do if driving on a dirt road and a kangeroo jumps out in front of you. Do you brake, do you swerve, do you down gear???
OK so I know not all p platers n young people are bad drivers but could you just imagine if you had a 16/17 ur old with barley any driving experience jump behind the wheel of a ralliart. I'm sorry but that scares me.
Yeah I'd love to have a powerful car, and I wanted to get a xr6 turbo instead of my lancer, but I'm pretty sure if I got the turbo 5 years ago it more then likely would be wrapped around a tree by now.
Example: back in very early 90's my bf got a very high powered hsv 5lt v8 when he was 20. And being a young lad with such an awesome car what do you do, you go out n take all your mates for a cruise and show off to all the chicky babes. The amount of car accidents he had in that car I'm very surprised he's still alive today. All because he didn't know how to handle such a car.
Sorry for blabbering on, Nana shann is almost done....
If p platers are to be slowed to drive turbos and powerful cars there needs to be other rules in place so they know how to handle the car.

[hjubm2]

OK so Im going to sound like such an old person now but I think the laws in place for p plater not being able to drive a turbo are good. I think having restrictions on how powrfull the car you can drive is good to a certain extent. OK maybe if I was a lot younger I would be saying different. But having a few years (8) of legal driving experience, plus a couple years driving around on the farm, I think young people need to have a certain level of driving experience before they get behind the wheel of a powerful car. I think these days it should be law that you have to do a defensive driving course. Not so you can learn how to be a idiot on the road, but to learn how to handle and react is something bad was to happen. I grew up driving in the country on dirt roads, which are far more dangerous to drive on then bitumised roads. I can remember one of the driving instructors would take you to a big dirt patch n pull up the hand brake n show you what to do if your car starts sliding out n stuff like that. Do you p platers know what to do if driving on a dirt road and a kangeroo jumps out in front of you. Do you brake, do you swerve, do you down gear??? OK so I know not all p platers n young people are bad drivers but could you just imagine if you had a 16/17 ur old with barley any driving experience jump behind the wheel of a ralliart. Im sorry but that scares me. Yeah Id love to have a powerful car, and I wanted to get a xr6 turbo instead of my lancer, but Im pretty sure if I got the turbo 5 years ago it more then likely would be wrapped around a tree by now. Example: back in very early 90s my bf got a very high powered hsv 5lt v8 when he was 20. And being a young lad with such an awesome car what do you do, you go out n take all your mates for a cruise and show off to all the chicky babes. The amount of car accidents he had in that car Im very surprised hes still alive today. All because he didnt know how to handle such a car. Sorry for blabbering on, Nana shann is almost done.... If p platers are to be slowed to drive turbos and powerful cars there needs to be other rules in place so they know how to handle the car.

I can see what your trying to say there Shannon but from what I have seen there are quite a lot of ways around these P Plate laws in all the different states. I get young people on there P's come into work all the time in WRX's, V8 Commodores & even high performance 5 Series BMW's so I do not see how any restrictions end up helping in the long run. Granted it will keep some people from driving high performance cars but there will always be ways around it or people who just do not listen to what they can & can not do.

The way I see it is that if they were really trying to cut down on serious accidents in high powered cars then they should make it so that there are brackets for how powerful a car you can legally drive & to unlock a bracket you have to complete a course that shows you can handle the higher power levels.

Considering in SA you can get off your P's by 19 or 20 it seems almost pointless to me. If your a bad driver then just because your not on your P Plates does not mean you can suddenly handle a large increase in power.

Just a few of my thoughts there...

[Syke]

this has already passed in QLD, i see heaps of P platers driving ralliarts around. there is also rumours of them extending it to 140kw/tonne.

The whole 'No turbo' rule was stupid in the first place. Considering here in QLD they made an exception for turbo diesels the day they brough it in, it was never going to last.

Cars are way safer now then what they were 5-10 years ago and considering most of them are running such low boost, I think it is much more fitting rule to have.

[byzon3]

[TheVeeMachine]

Im actually on my p plates and have just sold my lancer to buy something turbo, lol.

Get an old Saab, you hoon

@shamoo
It all comes down to $$$. The median age of a learner driver will be 16/17, and while it would be great for them to take all these fab driving courses, it would be too expensive to do. They have enough problem gaining the mandatory 120 hrs experience as it is (I know of one person who takes one 1 hour lesson per week, and will be spending a total of $5-6,000.00 over more than 2 years to get her Ps). If it was state government funded, then licensing/registration/fines would have to go up to compensate, leading to a plethora of complaints; and forget about including such costs in the federal budget, as there are enough money pits in that already.

As for the vehicle restrictions, no doubt the general consensus is that novice drivers shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of 'powerful' cars; but this may be a problem for families that require such cars (e.g. V8 for towing) and can only afford to purchase one vehicle, not to mention the loopholes available for those that can afford multiple vehicles but don't mind their kids driving C63 AMGs and the like.

Besides the whole argument of whether or not young drivers should be allowed to drive fast cars, I'm of the opinion that people will find stupid ways to do things regardless of the objects at their disposal and the safety measures in place. Think of planking and the numerous injuries (and even a death!) that have resulted from that. Sure, the margin for error in powerful cars is smaller, but we're not talking about 700HP Lamborghinis with highly sensitive steering, we're discussing 300KW Holdens and Fords - modern variants of which have traction control and other driver aids.

byzon3, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to show proof to the standard you are asking. A level of intuition must be applied when considering what measures to implement.

[hjubm2]

Sure, the margin for error in powerful cars is smaller, but were not talking about 700HP Lamborghinis with highly sensitive steering, were discussing 300KW Holdens and Fords - modern variants of which have traction control and other driver aids.

It could be debated that a V8 Commodore or Falcon is more dangerous then a supercar such as a Ferrari or Lamborghini due to it's roots. For example a Ferarri F430 is a lot lighter & designed from the start to handle all the extra power where as a HSV Club Sport with around 50kw less power has just had a huge engine added to it and a couple of uprated parts slapped on. I know from experience that it is a lot harder to get into trouble with a F430 F1 then a Club Sport, even when all the electronics are turned off on the F430.

Due to this is could be debated that, if money is no option, a young person should have a higher performance car like a Ferrari or similar instead of driving a HSV, FPV or similar.

[palimak1]

Do you p platers know what to do if driving on a dirt road and a kangeroo jumps out in front of you.

Get a bar put on the front of your car and ignore it

No but seriously I understand what you are saying, my parents actually made me do a defensive driving course before I could get my car. Raising the power/weight rule slightly isn't that big of a deal, at the end of the day the same type of people are going to crash their cars.

Get an old Saab, you hoon

I had some other cars in mind

[citris.87]

OK I wasn't going to jump in but I am now lol. I think the Power to weight is a brilliant idea, but, I think 130kW/T is very, VERY generous. My dad was a cop for about 30 years, and most of them were on the road, so before I even had a licence I had been to my fair share of offensive and defensive driving coerces with him, in all different city and states. The first few were in a low power car, you get your confidence up, I could keep control when you slip out on a round about... so then when they bump you up to the v8 undercover squad cars.. you think you know everything, and you keep thinking that, Oh... the cars sideways, I know how to handle this, the only time you realize that you don't... is when you are sitting in a tire wall and the cop next to you is shaking his head.

I don't know what its like where you guys are, so I really cant talk for your areas, but here, in Townsville, I wouldn't want the majority of P platers here to have 130kW/T at their disposal. It doesn't matter how much you THINK you know, how many "Courses" you have done, real world experience is the only place to learn properly.

I may be a hypocrite, I did have a TT when I was 17, and I thought I knew how to drive it to, I mean, I did all them courses, didn't stop me from loosing control on many occasions, and its only luck that I managed to keep in under control (even if I told my mates it was skill).

So honestly, I recon it should be more like 90kW-100kW/Tonn, at least for the first couple of years, them maybe bump it up after. and get rid of all these useless exemptions, they are just loopholes.

/argument

Commence Flame War

[debonaire]

Forget banning turbos, forget banning power to weight, forget banning V8s.... why can't they just make a list of allowed cars and a list of not allowed cars? The problem with all these politicians and paper pushers is they can only operate in numbers and figures.

They just need to sit down and qualitatively assess all cars based on power, weight, size, driven wheels, active and passive safety systems, and subjectively decide whether a kid is likely to collide with some piece of scenery.

And in my opinion, a Ralliart is more than safe enough for a P plater to drive. They don't even have the power to break traction, and would hold on much longer than something else if thrown around in corners.