Committee statement on QLD meets/events on May 6th & 7th

[MattyvR]

@MattyvR:

Tonal intonation is very important.
Phrasing things is also important.
Context is also a necessary consideration.

One other point to note is that the meets discussed were NOT CCJ organised meets.

So say you go on a cruise with JDMST. You boys pump up the volume in the car park. Another fellow member dobs on you to me.
You may well have made too much noise but who am I to tell you off about it?

You may well be carrying a CCJ decal and be an active member here but doesn't give me any power to wave my finger at you.

Fair point, however.

Again, to reiterate the point, as a committee, we DO NOT tolerate illegal and inappropriate behaviour on the roads. It is a reflection of the club, as a whole, not just the individuals. Any member found grossly misbehaving on official club events will be dealt with appropriately.

If I am in a company car and I am reported for irresponsible driving with proof (ie a video, witnesses etc.) I would more than likely lose my job. However, if a group of members on a "un-official" cruise drive recklessly, displaying club decals, a disapproving admin cops it because he stated his opinion on the matter.

Just doesn't sound right to me, very contradictory in fact, however it's up to the club to deal with it their own way.

Matt.

[ofey]

Hang on, I'm having difficulty following the train of thought:

Scene 1: You in company car joyriding, you lose job.
My thoughts: Yes. You should. It's a company car.

Then you say However:

Scene 2: Un-official cruise, drive recklessly, club decals shown.
My thoughts: Cruise was NOT organised on CCJ. Privately held. Club decal is worn on car if you are premium. Doesn't mean you are representing the club at all times. Furthermore, this is NOT an official club event.

If we treated the decal as REPRESENTING the club at all times, we should also start sending out our own warning letters for members caught speeding, crashing red lights and if the accident was caused by them.

Starts being a policing club.

What kinesis states is correct. But the last sentence is very important. "on official club events".

We cannot control what members do on their own watch. Even if half a dozen of you decide to get together in your own time and Go 200km/h on the freeway and all of you carry CCJ decals, you may well be representative of the club since 6 of you are there BUT crucially it was done at your own time.

However, if on an official club cruise to Towoomba, 2 of the 20 of you go throttle crazy and speed off into the distance. The admin now can step in and strip the decals. No one can argue with that.

The clear difference is WHEN you act this way.

We would like all club members to behave whilst wearing the CCJ decal.

But it's something impossible to "police".

What is clear is that when at a CCJ organised event, the admin should be able to record the behaviour and report or take action to strip the misbehaving member of their membership.

But in a NON-club organised event or even when the person is by themselves, if they do hoon or get done for speeding, crashing a red light, causing a RTA, who are we to police that?

We are Club CJ admin and mods. Not the Federal Police.

[MattyvR]

If we treated the decal as REPRESENTING the club at all times, we should also start sending out our own warning letters for members caught speeding, crashing red lights and if the accident was caused by them.

Point taken, I just believe that as a group of members were driving recklessly, they were representing the club in a poor manner, and even if nothing happens to them, sleeper shouldn't of been treated the way he was.

That said however, I am not familiar with what occurred when other members attempted to organise official meets and he "apparently" dismissed them.

You make a good point though and I'm sure that your last post will make clear to everyone on here the club's view on the situation.
Matt.

[ofey]

Seems to have alot of he said she said going on here.

I won't go outside the boundaries of our discussion though:

I cannot agree with you that simply because 4-5 members were there, they were repping the club. As I mentioned, and theorised it for you above, it was NOT a club event.

Treated?
Would you like to elaborate on how he has been treated?
What have you heard??

[stewy]

One thing to keep in mind is when it comes to the police they have been known in the past to target any car with a club's sticker if they receive reports that there has been wreck-less driving by a group of cars with club stickers. So in that sense even if an unofficial cruise they are still most certainly representing the club when acting like that out on public roads. Is a shame to see a decent and honest bloke like Sleeper be mob lynched by the Committee over this.

[The X]

I think as a committee we've tried to be as clear as possible without breaching any confidentiality in terms of specifics.

Here it is again in case it was missed;

As you may be aware, the previous QLD admin, Sleeper, has decided to step down for various reasons. The issues relating to this saga were not directly responsble for Sleeper's decision in stepping down.

Read between the lines. However to use phrases like "mob lynched" and "treated the way he was" is misplaced.

[Meaty]

Again, to reiterate the point, as a committee, we DO NOT tolerate illegal and inappropriate behaviour on the roads. It is a reflection of the club, as a whole, not just the individuals. Any member found grossly misbehaving on official club events will be dealt with appropriately.

i give with my left, i take with my right ? you cannot say you dont tolerate illegal, dangerous or inappropriate actions on the road, that it reflects onto the club, then in the same paragraph imply that you do tolerate it unless its on a cruise.

that sentence to me is rubbish sorry.

[evil.ralliart]

Here is a total fix to the problem...... DONT put a sticker on your car

[ofey]

i give with my left, i take with my right ? you cannot say you dont tolerate illegal, dangerous or inappropriate actions on the road, that it reflects onto the club, then in the same paragraph imply that you do tolerate it unless its on a cruise.

that sentence to me is rubbish sorry.

But we're NOT the Federal Police... .
There was no where in that statement that phrased it the way you did to say we tolerate it unless it's on a cruise.

But clearly what you do on your own time cannot be policed by us.

[sleeper]

i told them to go to facebook yes, they wanted to hold a cruise every week which imo would have been reflected by lesser numbers on the "official cruises" . other than that suggestion, i was always advocating members put up any cruise/meet with of course admins permission, thats the way it works.
i did however expect no dangerous, reckless driving whilst carrying the club decal.
as for being the police, the warning did not mention names and was locked so it would end there.
whats wrong with that??

and pete, dont allude to other things, bring them out?
of course to make sure its not just spin youll probably have to open up the admin forum?

anyway, like i said in my "resignation" i`m over admin, never again.
pete shouldnt have opened old wounds by instigating this thread.

heh, i only ever wanted to organise qld cruises, never asked to be admin in the first place.

sleeper (decal free)
out.

[ofey]

i did however expect no dangerous, reckless driving whilst carrying the club decal.

I too would hope that.
But to tie one's driving behaviour to the club decal would be wrong.
As mentioned before, the club decal only shows you're a premium, cash supporting member of CCJ.

Nothing more.

If we tied the driving behaviour to the club decal, we would have to take action against anyone done for speeding, rushing a red light or causing accidents. We'd also need to be like the insurers in checking everyone's driving record prior to allowing sign ups to become premium. Impractical to say the least.

Cruising in an organised Club CJ event as I explained though is different.

as for being the police, the warning did not mention names and was locked so it would end there.
whats wrong with that??

@MattyvR:

Tonal intonation is very important.
Phrasing things is also important.
Context is also a necessary consideration.

One other point to note is that the meets discussed were NOT CCJ organised meets.

So say you go on a cruise with JDMST. You boys pump up the volume in the car park. Another fellow member dobs on you to me.
You may well have made too much noise but who am I to tell you off about it?

You may well be carrying a CCJ decal and be an active member here but doesn't give me any power to wave my finger at you.

and ofey, dont allude to other things, bring them out?
of course to make sure its not just spin youll probably have to open up the admin forum?

Kindly point me in the direction of where I have implied that there were other things in this thread?

sleeper (decal free)
out.

The general consensus we got from the responses of members who stripped the club decal was to demonstrate a defiance of the warning ("to have your badges") they found to be haughty.

Based on what you've said in this thread, You've made being decal-ed = tying one to always driving well and being a model driver AT ALL TIMES else Admin would be entitled to step in (thus justifying your warning).

It would appear, being decal-ed for you isn't the same as what I eluded to above (=> cash supporting member)

So you by removing your decal, thereby removing the same shackles you placed on others before? happy "spirited" driving then?

Ironic to say the least.

[sleeper]

sorry ofey, i apologise, it was petes last post, i`ll edit my post.

[blade888]

Well mistakes have been made and people have done wrong, all we can do is learn from it and move on.


Core Issues raised:
-The public image factor-
Sleeper's concern is well justified that a club decal on a car is a 'visual' representation of the car belonging to a club. So it's actions in public good or bad will have public exposure and opinion relative to the action wether we like it or not.

-The enforcement factor-
Ofey's concern is also very valid, that it's not a CCJ event or sanctioned by us offically. Thus constitutional rights/rules cannot be enforced nor can the club be held liable. As CCJ Comm and Admins have no right to police what every member does 24/7 with their lancer.


There were two core mistakes that were made which caused the issue to balloon as I see it:
1. The driving behaviour of those involved - This is an obvious given. Bad/irresponsible driving = Bad/irresponsible rep, dangerous, etc, etc.
2. The event was told to be passed on via Facebook/word of mouth, not via the normal CCJ channels - Thus removing the ability for the Comm to enforce CCJ Constitution regarding safe and responsible behaviour during cruise and meets.


What can we learn for this?
1. To those driving recklessly - common guys, seriously. That kind of behaviour will cause authorities to target any CCJ member and public drivers to build a bad rep on us and road rage in return. Think about all the un-involved fellow CCJ members (many which are responsible, safe driving parents and families) who could be pulled over by police for no reason or public driver cutting them off in a rage against the club and causing an accident, all because of your actions. (Yes this does happen). I'm not asking as an Admin, a Mod, or member of comm. I'm asking as an equal, a fellow member, to please respect others on the roads as you want them to respect you.
2. Cruises and Meets organisational channels - If you are to recommend the use of Facebook to organise cruises and meets and wish to enforce safe driving rules as per constitution, make sure it's an offical event and posted on the CCJ Facebook fan page with a link to a forum thread here, both to be updated at the same time with attendance and news on it. Simple.



All in all, the club can learn and grow from this. Every club goes through growing pains and this is one of them.

[ofey]

Thanks for chiming in Nick. Honestly, we've missed you badly.

2. The event was told to be passed on via Facebook/word of mouth, not via the normal CCJ channels - Thus removing the ability for the Comm to enforce CCJ Constitution regarding safe and responsible behaviour during cruise and meets.

2. Cruises and Meets organisational channels - If you are to recommend the use of Facebook to organise cruises and meets and wish to enforce safe driving rules as per constitution, make sure it's an offical event and posted on the CCJ Facebook fan page with a link to a forum thread here, both to be updated at the same time with attendance and news on it. Simple.

I have to bring up my POV regarding this.

It is important NOT to make members feel like they're bound to meeting only when the club admins call for meets.
You can meet at anytime.

Furthermore, one shouldn't then think that just cos its a club meet, everyone has to be on their best behaviour. And then reinterpret the club as a nanny.
We don't disapprove on private meets.
We recognise that frequency and types of meets are up to the membership.
Not every meet/cruise needs to have admin in attendance.

Members are welcomed to organise their own meets or invite club members for other joint forum cruises here.
Though, if the meet/cruise is listed on the CCJ website, we must take some form of action if unlawful behaviour is reported.

We do have to say:

At all times, please be mindful of your surroundings and actions.

Official Meet: Admin will have to step in if something happens which affects the image of the club.

Non-official Meet: We cannot police nor take any action over your behaviour.
However, if reported to us via the police we do have to reserve the right to remove/revoke membership.

That should be acceptable to everyone?

[blade888]

Heya, thanks mate, and no worries

With this:

It is important NOT to make members feel like they're bound to meeting only when the club admins call for meets.
You can meet at anytime.

Yes I agree with you on that fully. We all have friends in club that we randomly meet up with on occasion during the week. This is one of the things a club is for

Just to clarify (I wasn't clear I think). If the person is making a large event and doesn't want reckless incidents, then they have the option to make it an offical meet with Comm help.

If you are to recommend the use of Facebook to organise cruises and meets and wish to enforce safe driving rules as per constitution

Anyhow, it's good to see the matter behind us and we're all the wiser from it.

What make a good club great, is experience.